darth vader vs count dooku

", "The action in the movie doesn't perfectly match the rough draft", "but there's no indication the intent was revised". Completely irrelevent, Yoda did not back him into that area. Especially in Disney Canon. "He and Yoda are still clearly a level above him. Anyone can last defensively against a superior foe via not opening their guard and taking offensive risks. Gee it's almost like they're trying to tell us something. Yoda simply forced him to fight at his pace and range. His other duels with Yoda are much better. George Lucas Stated Vader became less useful to Sidious because Sidious always wanted some more powerful than him to rule along side him in the empire. Moreover, if Yoda had to force Dooku into a corner -- which, he didn't do -- to win, that indicates he couldn't penetrate Dooku's defenses in an open environment. First, he had him weaker than TPM Maul then over time he had Vader stronger than Both Dooku and Maul. "It's not headcanon if the script says it's how it happened and if it's back up by the official LFL approved novelization. So by your logic, Dooku is a level above Sidious, Vader, Mace, etc. Vader is much more powerful than Shaak Ti? "Vader wins in both canon and in Legends." How long was Qui-Gon vs Maul on Tatooine? An amped Dooku was able to put up a good fight on Vjun against Yoda. The intent is to force the opponent to tire himself out. Even if we take your argument as face value, and say there is only a 5% difference from Yoda and Dooku...Sidious out of his mouth stated Vader is his most powerful minion ever.". If Vader can keep the pressure on Dooku and keep him from exploiting his skill edge, he wins by wearing the Count down before dispatching him. instead of being more powerful than the emperor Vader was just his rival in power. Not someone who is. not Statements but in feats, Since you ignore Statements every time I post them just like you are going to ignore the top Statement. How long was Obi-Wan vs Grievous on Utapau? However, before turning to the dark side, he was a respected and admired Jedi, being trained by Yoda and having trained Qui-Gon. It's what you are forced to do when you are outclasssed. It means quite simply that, he fought well. The dejected flunky in OT Vader who realistically knows he can't surpass Sidious, takes orders from non-force sensitives, and was given all he could handle by a green Luke and decisively beaten when the latter stopped holding back can’t hang with Dooku. Meeting your match just means you've found an equal, it doesn't mean no one else you've fought was an equal. Dooku & Sidious are testing Anakin, feeling out his abilities. "No, Luke's potential is less than Anakin's. George Lucas has Also stated Luke went on to become what Anakin couldn't have. What does Sidious say about that? One can trudge through the mud attempting to sift through the mounds of different secondary accounts and supplementary sources in relation to this fight, all with their own idea as to what went down and why -- but as far as what happened in the actual film? He's an asset, and a valuable one at that: Dooku's end goal is to prevail -- but he isn't trying to kill (or, presumably, maim) Anakin, and thus isn't giving it his all. @kilius: Makashi isn't just about defense. @kilius: He and Yoda are still clearly a level above him. and doesn't detract from the fact that he matched Yoda almost completely evenly beforehand. It's quite simple: Dooku is better than Anakin. Again, Dooku sighed. So, even a significantly more powerful version of Anakin Skywalker that could already defeat Count Dooku would be pressed by Darth Maul. Lucas goes out of his way to note that the quality of their fencing has been upped on the part of both fighters, and that the duel is intense. As we see from ESB, Vader's suit can tank glancing slashes from a lightsaber, but as we see in comics, it is vulnerable to piercing. Darth Vader Vader Form V Djem-so>Dooku's Form II Makashi. The source you used is referring to the Empire era, it doesn't cover Dooku, and I can pull out sources saying that Dooku >>>> everyone in a fight but Yoda. Minutes before ANH, Vader lost decisively to an identical clone of TPM Maul. save. That's the very definition of being outlcassed. It's proved by Sidious thinking that Dooku and Ventress were strong enough to overthrow him, and Ventress is stated to be far less powerful than Dooku. It's not even up for debate that Darth Vader is stronger than Count Dooku. Like many of the other Sith, Count Dooku was incredibly proficient with the Force, even being able to win in a fight against Yoda. And faster than characters who can keep pace with Maul including a post prime version of Kenobi still capable of taking it to Hett who in turn stomped and enraged Anakin far easier than Dooku. Close. But did he stomp him? Makashi is all about positioning and controlling your opponents movement, no way would Dooku want to be encumbered in a tight space. It's only Darth Vader's tactical experience that gives him the edge. The goal is improvement of technique and ability. That version is superior to Vastor who beat Mace to within an inch of his life. Darth Plagueis thought that pre-prime Dooku could make a powerful partner. His force lightning can also prove to be a threat although Vader has been proven to block lightning from Sidious, which is much more powerful than Dooku's. George Lucas Signed off on that as well that Vader would beat Post ROTS Yoda, "dear jesus christ when you think the lowballing can never stop,". not only that he butchers the count of serenno so bad its not even funny. This doesn't elevate Anakin conclusively beyond Dooku because Anakin won't always be that much stronger than another opponent on that level, and likewise Dooku won't always be that much weaker than another opponent on that level. They are at war. But that's all it is: a misconception. Who would the Commanders be? So says the person arguing that someone fighting well doesn't mean they actually did well in the fight... "You've revealed that you don't really care about Lucas's intent when you know perfectly well what he means.". Anakin didn't legitimately defeat Dooku, any more than Obi-Wan legitimately defeated Maul in Episode I. "Canon policy is just a guideline, the reality is almost everybody who debates Star Wars characters are fans and avid readers of the EU so people are going to use novel feats regardless if it contradicts the choreography.". "It's about making your opponent miss and then making them pay for their mistakes:", "Form II does not focus on attack, but rather economic movement in defensive parries. Not to mention, on Boz Pity, Dooku matched Mace Windu who is a peer of Sidious and Yoda. Now you might say something like, "well okay, but how does that prove Dooku's considerable superority? Anakin beats Dooku, and Vader will dominate him. - George Lucas. Canon policy is just a guideline, the reality is almost everybody who debates Star Wars characters are fans and avid readers of the EU so people are going to use novel feats regardless if it contradicts the choreography. Both historically speaking and in modern day, the active swordplay in a duel rarely spans more than a few seconds. As we see from ESB, Vader's suit can tank glancing slashes from a lightsaber, but as we see in comics, it is vulnerable to piercing. Rebels Vader even has the upper hand here as hes stated to be above Prime Anakin. So far? After significantly more physical activity. Vader gives his opponents time to breath and feel him out, Anakin bull rushes . Dooku still believing he's going to win throughout the fight only serves as further evidence that it was a close match. So, this thread is legends, in which Lucas' word is irrefutably top-chain. Vader gives his opponents time to breath and feel him out, Anakin bull rushes . On Vjun, while amped, Dooku was only slightly being forced back by Yoda. Edit: potential of The Chosen one>Luke=Leia 2x>ROTJ Sidious. This is an unnecessary and unfounded jab, there's no need to be antagonistic. Darth Vader, Count Dooku and Darth Maul vs The Nazgul. Arguably doesn't apply to Dooku cause he's dead at that point. the dooku highballing is just atrocious at best at least not as ridiculous as the revan wank or the windu one. "and moreover the official novelization supports the notion Yoda is decisively and comfortably above Dooku by a level. i am trying to tell everyone if Vader was as weak as they are implying him to be then Sidious would have replaced him as soon as possible. Sure, there are fights of that length -- Obi-Wan vs Anakin, Yoda vs Palpatine, Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon vs Maul -- but there are also a fair amount of considerably shorter bouts. Who Was More Powerful? Introduced in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones played by Christopher Lee, Count Dooku has become one of the franchise's most imposing villains. ABC logic is pointless most of the time. He's also not as agile as Anakin so even if he does get the advantage in a head-to-head exchange Dooku should be able to give him the slip with his agility. Call me crazy, but that looks pretty balanced to me. "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us. In the script Dooku is stonewalled by Yoda and then forced to retreat, ends up disarmed and badly overwhelmed. He showed master level craft and Yoda complimented him for it, same way a sensei complements his top pupil after outclassing him a sparring exhibition, it just wasn't enough to press Yoda who is even more masterful.". Even if we take your argument as face value, and say there is only a 5% difference from Yoda and Dooku...Sidious out of his mouth stated Vader is his most powerful minion ever.

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